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	<title>Comments on: Data retention another step closer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/</link>
	<description>Protecting your rights in the digital age</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Louisiana</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Louisiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 09:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Hm, I just posted a comment using Firefox and it worked okay, no problems. Maybe there's an issue with certain releases of Firefox (?). Louise F</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, I just posted a comment using Firefox and it worked okay, no problems. Maybe there&#8217;s an issue with certain releases of Firefox (?). Louise F</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Bond</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Bond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-113</guid>
		<description>A note for the webmaster. I've just posted a comment using IE6 because firefox didn't work. I got a spurious message about javascript needing to be enabled. Well it was but it didn't work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A note for the webmaster. I&#8217;ve just posted a comment using IE6 because firefox didn&#8217;t work. I got a spurious message about javascript needing to be enabled. Well it was but it didn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Bond</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Bond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-112</guid>
		<description>I'm decidely confused about the scope of this and don't feel I understand the true nature of what's being proposed. But I do have some major reservations. 

- Everything I've read seems to be pointed at major ISPs and telcos as though they are only people who process internet communications. However very large numbers of much smaller oragnizations, right down to individuals, run email servers. Will they also have to retain records for 6-12 months? How about organisations that provide free, rented or charged internet access such as Hotels, Business office space such as Regus, Internet cafes, Wifi Access hotspots and so on.

- Then there's the very large numbers of wide open WiFi networks (the infamous "Linksys Community Network"!). The ends aren't secure. So if we follow the line of reasoning that data retention is required we have to secure the ends as well. This leads to completely unacceptable requirements on end users. The same line of reasoning can be applied to Internet cafes and leads directly to the sort of issues thrown up by repressive regimes that require internet cafes to be "licensed".

- There are numerous internet applications that are by their nature P2P. Some of these (such as Skype) are encrypted. Some anonymise the end points. How does getting ISPs to retain data hope to cover these applications?

Time to resurrect the decentralisation meme again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m decidely confused about the scope of this and don&#8217;t feel I understand the true nature of what&#8217;s being proposed. But I do have some major reservations. </p>
<p>- Everything I&#8217;ve read seems to be pointed at major ISPs and telcos as though they are only people who process internet communications. However very large numbers of much smaller oragnizations, right down to individuals, run email servers. Will they also have to retain records for 6-12 months? How about organisations that provide free, rented or charged internet access such as Hotels, Business office space such as Regus, Internet cafes, Wifi Access hotspots and so on.</p>
<p>- Then there&#8217;s the very large numbers of wide open WiFi networks (the infamous &#8220;Linksys Community Network&#8221;!). The ends aren&#8217;t secure. So if we follow the line of reasoning that data retention is required we have to secure the ends as well. This leads to completely unacceptable requirements on end users. The same line of reasoning can be applied to Internet cafes and leads directly to the sort of issues thrown up by repressive regimes that require internet cafes to be &#8220;licensed&#8221;.</p>
<p>- There are numerous internet applications that are by their nature P2P. Some of these (such as Skype) are encrypted. Some anonymise the end points. How does getting ISPs to retain data hope to cover these applications?</p>
<p>Time to resurrect the decentralisation meme again.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Dunbar</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Dunbar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 11:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-111</guid>
		<description>re: Arrest warrant list includes "piracy".

Does it? I can't find it on the EAW document: http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33167.htm

And anyway, doesn't that mean the "Pirates of the Carribean" sort of piracy? The warrant can only be granted for offences carry a minimum 1 year jail term. Copyright Infringement doesn't carry that minimum sentence - IPRED2 or not. The only ones I can see there which might fly is fraud or "participation in a criminal organisation" - which I'm guessing means the Mafia, or the like. I think the content providers would struggle to get anywhere with this.

Looking at the changes voted on by LIBE, it seems to spike the guns of the CMBA, since it limits the scope of offences allowable for retained data access, as well as strictly limiting the agencies allowed to request access.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: Arrest warrant list includes &#8220;piracy&#8221;.</p>
<p>Does it? I can&#8217;t find it on the EAW document: <a href="http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33167.htm" rel="nofollow">http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33167.htm</a></p>
<p>And anyway, doesn&#8217;t that mean the &#8220;Pirates of the Carribean&#8221; sort of piracy? The warrant can only be granted for offences carry a minimum 1 year jail term. Copyright Infringement doesn&#8217;t carry that minimum sentence - IPRED2 or not. The only ones I can see there which might fly is fraud or &#8220;participation in a criminal organisation&#8221; - which I&#8217;m guessing means the Mafia, or the like. I think the content providers would struggle to get anywhere with this.</p>
<p>Looking at the changes voted on by LIBE, it seems to spike the guns of the CMBA, since it limits the scope of offences allowable for retained data access, as well as strictly limiting the agencies allowed to request access.</p>
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		<title>By: Karl-Friedrich Lenz</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl-Friedrich Lenz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Please consider linking to the Wiki at 

wiki.dataretentionisnosolution.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please consider linking to the Wiki at </p>
<p>wiki.dataretentionisnosolution.com</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2005/11/24/data-retention-another-step-closer/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.openrightsgroup.org/?p=35#comment-105</guid>
		<description>The &lt;a href="http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/privacy/workinggroup/wpdocs/2005_en.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;EU Data Protection Working Party&lt;/a&gt; has condemned this legislation and has &lt;a href="http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/privacy/docs/wpdocs/2005/wp113_en.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;a 20 point list of objections&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;1.  PURPOSES   The data should only be retained for specific purposes of fighting terrorism and organised  crime, rather than with regard to  any other undetermined “serious crime”. This limited purpose  should be also referred to in the title of the proposed Directive.    
2.  RECIPIENTS  The Directive should provide that the data be only available to specifically designated law  enforcement authorities where necessary for the investigation, detection, prosecution and/or  prevention of terrorism. A list of such designated law enforcement authorities should be  publicly available.     
3.  DATA MINING   Prevention of terrorism should not include large-scale data-mining based on the information  referred to in the Directive in respect of the travel and communication patterns of people  unsuspected by the law enforcement authorities. Access must be restricted to those data that are  necessary in the context of specific investigation.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;
and 17 more good points. Lets pass this to the Eu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/privacy/workinggroup/wpdocs/2005_en.htm" rel="nofollow">EU Data Protection Working Party</a> has condemned this legislation and has <a href="http://europa.eu.int/comm/justice_home/fsj/privacy/docs/wpdocs/2005/wp113_en.pdf" rel="nofollow">a 20 point list of objections</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>1.  PURPOSES   The data should only be retained for specific purposes of fighting terrorism and organised  crime, rather than with regard to  any other undetermined “serious crime”. This limited purpose  should be also referred to in the title of the proposed Directive.<br />
2.  RECIPIENTS  The Directive should provide that the data be only available to specifically designated law  enforcement authorities where necessary for the investigation, detection, prosecution and/or  prevention of terrorism. A list of such designated law enforcement authorities should be  publicly available.<br />
3.  DATA MINING   Prevention of terrorism should not include large-scale data-mining based on the information  referred to in the Directive in respect of the travel and communication patterns of people  unsuspected by the law enforcement authorities. Access must be restricted to those data that are  necessary in the context of specific investigation.  </p></blockquote>
<p>and 17 more good points. Lets pass this to the Eu.</p>
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